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May 2011
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Ys [userpic]

If these sorts of things don't horrify you...then I'm not sure I can ever wrap my brain around your way of thinking.

I cannot see this sort of thing as anything but a way for petty people to make themselves feel good by controlling other people, at the expense of those other people. If that's not firmly into evil, I'm not sure what is.

This sort of thing is why I worry about religious power, particularly the self-righteous variety.

Current Mood: distresseddisturbed

I'm suddenly reminded of a similar story about a Walgreen's pharmacist in Wisconsin.

In fact, I've been reading more and more stories along this line over the past year or so and it disturbs the hell out of me. I can't help but take this practice to a logical extreme in my head, and I wonder when we'll start seeing cashiers refusing to check someone out because their loot contains something to which the cashier has a strong moral or ethical objection - beer, cigarettes, condoms, pork, coffee, not-dolphin-safe tuna, aspirin - and not getting fired for it.

Heh. Perhaps we'll one day soon start seeing anti-choice pharmacies popping up, safe places for those with delicate yet aggressive consciences to work without fear of having their personal beliefs compromised in the workplace, pharmacies which carry no birth control pills, nor forms of emergency contraception, nor any sort of birth control device, up to and including condoms, sponges, and spermicidal lubricants.

Not that I disagree with your politics or your standpoint on this, but this post reeks of something that sort of bothers me.

Namely non-specific horror stories.

I'm sure these situations have indeed happened, but the stories told lacked specifics that come from real stories, and the lurid prose sounds more like an invention.

Horror stories are something that people who are trying to take things away from us use all the time. I think testimonials are great, but those involve people ready to be accountable with names and real information, not vague over-dramatized examples.

If we're going to prevent the slow shaving of rights in this country, I think the left is going to have to learn to get it's point across without resorting to shock tactics used by the right.

But then again, what are the odds that an argument on this topic is ever going to be civil? sigh.

Interesting response. I honestly don't think the right is aware that there are horror stories on the left. I think they are either naïve or generally prefer to see victims as "people with a victim mentality." The more stories, the better. To reveal the horror their interference in people's lives causes.

There's no more reason to violate these women's privacy by requiring specifics about their identity, IMO, than there is to reveal the name of a rape victim in the press. On the other hand, the pharmacists ought to be named. And the towns. I was happy to see WalMart was specifically named, but that specificity doesn't go nearly far enough.

I don't see "horror stories" like this as sinking to the level of the pseudo-moralists' tactics at all--rather, getting in the ring and actually fighting. I think it needs to happen more. People need to know that real people are suffering--and in some cases dying--because of sanctimonious control freaks.

Maybe my expectations as to anonymity are too obviously shaped by reading women's magazines. I just can't see it the way you present it.


I don't actually disagree with what you're saying, I guess as a writer I have issues with the lurid way those stories are often presented. It gains the tone of a campfire story or one of those stupid urban legends people are always passing around through email.

Maybe I just think crappy storytelling trivializes the issue. I'm open to the possibility that I'm merely neurotic.

Just for your information, there is an article in the Kansas City that, although it is not about the above story, does say that Wal-Mart in a number of stores (ie not all of them) do not carry emergency "morning after" pills. This means that if a woman is raped, she will have to drive to THE NEXT TOWN or more to get her perscription filled. Here's the URL: (warning, registration required)

So functionally, this story is possible. I can only hope that it has not happened yet.

The Religious Reich is on the Rise...and it is scary.


It's really quite freaky to me, the notion that people can refuse anything on the basis of differing moral code, especially if it's not their money held up in the process.

Maybe soon a gas station worker will be able to refuse to sell a customer cigarettes if they don't approve of the habit.

Hi folks.

My name is Niles Eastman. In about two years, I will be graduating from the University of Illinois with a bachelor's degree in Anthropology. After that, I will attend seminary, and, with God's help, hopefully become an ordained Lutheran pastor.

I just wanted to let you all know. Spiritually, I am doing this because I think God wants me to. Pragmatically, however, I am doing this because I want to help reclaim the church. It's being taken over by extremists like the ones talked about in that link, and I aim to take it back. I want to spread the message among Christians that we are called by Jesus to love one another unconditionally. None of this hate, none of this bigotry, none of this reducing our entire faith to gay marriage and birth control. It's about the love. All about the love.

So, anyways, yeah. I just wanted to let you guys know, the good guys are still here, and we're fighting for you. It's harder for us, because telling people to love is much more difficult than telling them to hate. But please don't think people like George W. Bush, Jack T. Chick, or Fred Phelps represent us, or even represent a true Christian. None of them do. I do. And I'm going to spread that message as much as I possibly can.

And for the record, however you choose to believe, or not believe, God loves you all. God's cool like that.

You make me feel like I wimped out by dropping out of seminary. Said feeling is my OWN failing, not yours. ;)
I wish you all the success in the world, and I hope that you find a congregation willing to be a church for all of God's children.

Kinda Awkward

Doesn't that stance sort of make for some kind of painful scenarios with people you actually like. Isn't it sort of painful when someone who reserved judgement on asks you if they're going to hell and you get to say, "Well yeah, probably."

I'm all for Christians avoiding psychotic condemnations and such, but doesn't that make for a masochistic situation?

Re: Kinda Awkward

Heh, well, it would...if I thought they were going to hell. The God I know, the God I see in Jesus, the God I feel in my heart, is a loving God. I just cannot fathom this God condemning *anyone* to hell. I can see this God letting people go and choose where they go after we pass on, but I can't see God just sending people to hell. The analogy my mom always likes to draw is, imagine a guy and his girlfriend, and the guy says "I love you more than anything else in the world, and I would even die for you, and if you ever leave me I'm going to douse you in gasoline and set you on fire."

I think Hell, and the Devil, are both metaphors designed to give us a focus to resist sinful nature. We aren't condemned because we don't believe in Jesus, but if we allow ourselves to be consumed by a sinful nature (greed, hate, that sort of thing), then when it comes time to make our choice for eternity, we'll choose to give ourselves over to that nature instead of letting go of it and entering into a closer relationship with God.

That's what I think, anyways. I could be wrong. ^^;

Re: Kinda Awkward

THAT'S IT! You sure have earned yourself a friending, whether you like it or not!

People completely have the right to do such things as this, but they also have to deal with their asses getting fired for doing it.

It's if these people get specific protection that we have to worry, which will be really amazing, because the protection would have to be so loosely written as to allow anyone to break any contract, at any time.

Essentially, you as a private citizen have a large set of rights that the fed can't take from you, but you also have the rights to contractually oblige yourself to perform tasks, if you fail to perform said tasks, you invalidate the contract, and suffer the consequences.

In the cases of these pharmacists, they have an employee contract to fulfill their employee duities, one of which is filling all valid prescriptions brought to them. If laws are ever passed that legally allow these people to break contract because of beliefs then I weep for America, because said laws would either specifically have to target pharmacists selling contraceptives, or allow catholics to give up work for lent and get a 40 day paid vacation every year.


> People completely have the right to do such things as this, but they also have to deal with their asses getting fired for doing it.

Precisely my thoughts. Nicely phrased.

And, on a side note, I also have to applaud the person above who doesn't believe in a heavily judgmental God, or one that sends people to hell, etc etc, for actually voicing what he did. I didn't think there were any Christians left like that (or at least who'd voice it), and it is also the primary reason I fled Christianity -- my current faith seemed much more tolerant and less fear-based than what "Christianity" seems to have become. And while I am perfectly happy in my current belief system, it is refreshing to see someone out there of a different faith whose views on the Divine mirror my own...(even though, if I have to personify my own, I have a God and a Goddess in mine...)

Love the Excel Saga icon!!!!